Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

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Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:21 am

River-margin habitat of Ardipithecus ramidus at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 million years ago

Gani, M. R. & Gani, N. D. River-margin habitat of
Ardipithecus ramidus at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 million years ago. Nat. Commun. 2:602
doi: 10.1038/ ncomms1610 (2011).

The nature and type of landscape that hominins (early humans) frequented has been of considerable interest. The recent works on Ardipithecus ramidus, a 4.4 million years old hominin found at Middle Awash, Ethiopia, provided critical information about the early part of human evolution. However, habitat characterization of this basal hominin has been highly contested. Here we present new sedimentological and stable isotopic (carbon and oxygen) data from Aramis, where the in situ, partial skeleton of Ar. ramidus (nicknamed ‘Ardi’) was excavated. These data are interpreted to indicate the presence of major rivers and associated mixed vegetations (grasses and trees) in adjacent floodplains. Our finding suggests that, in contrast to a woodland habitat far from a river, Ar. ramidus lived in a river-margin forest in an otherwise savanna (wooded grassland) landscape at Aramis, Ethiopia. Correct interpretation of habitat of Ar. ramidus is crucial for proper assessment of causes and mechanisms of early hominin evolution, including the development of bipedalism.
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:24 am

"Hominin fossil record recovered from floodplain deposits of the Lower Aramis Member at Aramis represents at least 36 individuals of Ar. ramidus, including the in-situ preservation of Ardi skeleton (ARA-VP-6/500)1,3. At this site, and from a stratigraphic interval spanning few thousand (to at most tens of thousands) years at 4.4 Myr, we identified significant channelized deposits directly adjacent to Ar. ramidus-bearing floodplain strata, which yielded overall low, yet with a large range of, δ13C values of pedogenic carbonates, indicating mixed vegetation (woody plants and grasses) in floodplain environment. This suggests that these early hominins inhabited riparian environments, likely taking the advantage of water-fed ecosystems developed in a narrow forest corridor bordered by more open woody grasslands, along the banks of palaeorivers. Modern Jara and Awash rivers near Aramis (Fig. 1) show similar densely vegetated (forestland to woodland) corridors (0.5–1 km wide for Jara and 1–2 km wide for Awash), which are rich in faunas, within a rather dry, grassland landscape (Fig. 4).
East Africa has been the centre place for human evolutionary studies, including investigation of why and how hominins split off from early apes. Understanding the dynamic nature of the early Pliocene landscape and environments, once frequented by hominins, both at regional and local scale is critical to evaluate the role of physical environment as a driver for hominin evolution16. The evidence we presented here for the riparian environmental context of basal hominins at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 Myr ago has clear implications for assessing various hypotheses17–19 related to drivers and mechanisms of early hominin evolution, including the development of bipedalism." Gani & Gani p3-4

Amazing concept, isn't it?

Seasonally flooded gallery forests having a possible bearing on human evolution... who would have thunk it?

Algis
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby Taxidea » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:40 pm

AlgisKuliukas wrote:"Hominin fossil record recovered from floodplain deposits of the Lower Aramis Member at Aramis represents at least 36 individuals of Ar. ramidus, including the in-situ preservation of Ardi skeleton (ARA-VP-6/500)1,3. At this site, and from a stratigraphic interval spanning few thousand (to at most tens of thousands) years at 4.4 Myr, we identified significant channelized deposits directly adjacent to Ar. ramidus-bearing floodplain strata, which yielded overall low, yet with a large range of, δ13C values of pedogenic carbonates, indicating mixed vegetation (woody plants and grasses) in floodplain environment. This suggests that these early hominins inhabited riparian environments, likely taking the advantage of water-fed ecosystems developed in a narrow forest corridor bordered by more open woody grasslands, along the banks of palaeorivers. Modern Jara and Awash rivers near Aramis (Fig. 1) show similar densely vegetated (forestland to woodland) corridors (0.5–1 km wide for Jara and 1–2 km wide for Awash), which are rich in faunas, within a rather dry, grassland landscape (Fig. 4).
East Africa has been the centre place for human evolutionary studies, including investigation of why and how hominins split off from early apes. Understanding the dynamic nature of the early Pliocene landscape and environments, once frequented by hominins, both at regional and local scale is critical to evaluate the role of physical environment as a driver for hominin evolution16. The evidence we presented here for the riparian environmental context of basal hominins at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 Myr ago has clear implications for assessing various hypotheses17–19 related to drivers and mechanisms of early hominin evolution, including the development of bipedalism." Gani & Gani p3-4

Amazing concept, isn't it?

Seasonally flooded gallery forests having a possible bearing on human evolution... who would have thunk it?

Algis


Why do *you* think it? A floodplain is a relatively flat area adjacent to a river extending to a rise in the landscape ie
a valley wall or margin. I live in a floodplain. Thankfully it does not flood seasonally. It has flooded
three times in a century. I experienced one of them up close and personal. Interesting times.

It is asked elsewhere in this forum how one recognizes pseudoscience. Incessant and inevitable
over interpretation of data to "support" a pre-formed conclusion is one marker.

Best wishes for the new year to you and yours.
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:00 am

Taxidea wrote:
AlgisKuliukas wrote:"Hominin fossil record recovered from floodplain deposits of the Lower Aramis Member at Aramis represents at least 36 individuals of Ar. ramidus, including the in-situ preservation of Ardi skeleton (ARA-VP-6/500)1,3. At this site, and from a stratigraphic interval spanning few thousand (to at most tens of thousands) years at 4.4 Myr, we identified significant channelized deposits directly adjacent to Ar. ramidus-bearing floodplain strata, which yielded overall low, yet with a large range of, δ13C values of pedogenic carbonates, indicating mixed vegetation (woody plants and grasses) in floodplain environment. This suggests that these early hominins inhabited riparian environments, likely taking the advantage of water-fed ecosystems developed in a narrow forest corridor bordered by more open woody grasslands, along the banks of palaeorivers. Modern Jara and Awash rivers near Aramis (Fig. 1) show similar densely vegetated (forestland to woodland) corridors (0.5–1 km wide for Jara and 1–2 km wide for Awash), which are rich in faunas, within a rather dry, grassland landscape (Fig. 4).
East Africa has been the centre place for human evolutionary studies, including investigation of why and how hominins split off from early apes. Understanding the dynamic nature of the early Pliocene landscape and environments, once frequented by hominins, both at regional and local scale is critical to evaluate the role of physical environment as a driver for hominin evolution16. The evidence we presented here for the riparian environmental context of basal hominins at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 Myr ago has clear implications for assessing various hypotheses17–19 related to drivers and mechanisms of early hominin evolution, including the development of bipedalism." Gani & Gani p3-4

Amazing concept, isn't it?

Seasonally flooded gallery forests having a possible bearing on human evolution... who would have thunk it?

Algis


Why do *you* think it? A floodplain is a relatively flat area adjacent to a river extending to a rise in the landscape ie
a valley wall or margin. I live in a floodplain. Thankfully it does not flood seasonally. It has flooded
three times in a century. I experienced one of them up close and personal. Interesting times.

It is asked elsewhere in this forum how one recognizes pseudoscience. Incessant and inevitable
over interpretation of data to "support" a pre-formed conclusion is one marker.

Best wishes for the new year to you and yours.


Moving through waist deep water is the simplest, most obvious, most predictable way of getting an ape to move bipedally. Seasonally flooded gallery forests regularly provide such scenarios. They also happen to provide the perfect intermediate habitat between forests and savannah which has pretty obviously influenced human evolution.

Do you live in the African savannah? Potts (1998) and others have shown that the Pliocene was characterised by increased aridity but not in a simple, linear way. There seems to have been periods that were very wet indeed. The combination of wet & dry (dry periods making forests shrink back to permanent water courses, wet periods flooding areas) led Potts to form his VS (variability selection) hypothesis. But what does this mean, practically? Wading in waist deep water, walking on open plains - makes sense to me. That's why I thunk it. I just don't understand why so few people seem to agree with me. Seems pretty obvious.

This paper provides unequivocal evidence that ardipithecus lived in seasonally flooded gallery forests. This has been strongly contested for years on TR, RD.net, sap. You are still contesting it now, so who's more guilty of sticking to pre-conceived ideas?

The idea that wading through water may have helped in the evolution of hominin bipedalism is about as obvious, basic and evidence-based as it could get. The way a whole group of people would still pretend it's pseudoscience rather than shift their view in even the slightest way when blatant evidence is provided is astonishing to me.

Best wishes to you too, Taxidae. I really appreciate your contributions here even if we disagree.

Algis
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby Taxidea » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:03 am

This paper provides unequivocal evidence that ardipithecus lived in seasonally flooded gallery forests.


Floodplain + gallery forest l= seasonally flooded gallery forest.

Unequivocal?? How about completely non-existent.
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:13 pm

Taxidea wrote:
This paper provides unequivocal evidence that ardipithecus lived in seasonally flooded gallery forests.


Floodplain + gallery forest l= seasonally flooded gallery forest.

Unequivocal?? How about completely non-existent.


Have you read the paper?

Image

Gani, M., Gani, N. River-margin habitat of Ardipithecus ramidus at Aramis, Ethiopia 4.4 million years ago. Nature Communications :1-5, (2011). (p 4)

The whole paper supports that statement there - "We suggest that early hominins inhabited a similar [narrow corridors of forestland (closed canopy) bordered by more open grassland environments] riparian environment at Aramis at 4.4 M Myr"

Riparian = seasonally flooded gallery forest.

Algis
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby Taxidea » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:20 am

The whole paper supports that statement there - "We suggest that early hominins inhabited a similar [narrow corridors of forestland (closed canopy) bordered by more open grassland environments] riparian environment at Aramis at 4.4 M Myr"

Riparian = seasonally flooded gallery forest.


This is so completely wrong as to defy explanation. Riparian is an adjective meaning river or streamside and
riparian environments are very particular ones. It would certainly include a sfgf but is not, by orders of
magnitude, restricted to them. Sfgf's are, in fact, quite rare. Large areas in the Amazon could be described
this way and , presumably, the Nile Valley.

I am forced to ask. You have been at this business of constructing your waterside hypothesis for over a
decade. You have, presumably, been through piles of site reports and palaeoeek analyses. In all that time did
it never occur to you to look up the meanings of words like riparian and flood plain which are a commonplace
in literature of this type? How is this even possible?

Now do Gani and Gani make explicit reference to a sfgf? Or are you just making a wholly unwarranted assumption?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:03 am

Taxidea wrote:
The whole paper supports that statement there - "We suggest that early hominins inhabited a similar [narrow corridors of forestland (closed canopy) bordered by more open grassland environments] riparian environment at Aramis at 4.4 M Myr"

Riparian = seasonally flooded gallery forest.


This is so completely wrong as to defy explanation. Riparian is an adjective meaning river or streamside and
riparian environments are very particular ones. It would certainly include a sfgf but is not, by orders of
magnitude, restricted to them. Sfgf's are, in fact, quite rare. Large areas in the Amazon could be described
this way and , presumably, the Nile Valley.

I am forced to ask. You have been at this business of constructing your waterside hypothesis for over a
decade. You have, presumably, been through piles of site reports and palaeoeek analyses. In all that time did
it never occur to you to look up the meanings of words like riparian and flood plain which are a commonplace
in literature of this type? How is this even possible?

Now do Gani and Gani make explicit reference to a sfgf? Or are you just making a wholly unwarranted assumption?


Savannahs are subject to seasonal rainfall. The whole paper describes riparian habitats in a broad savannah context.

You are clutching at pedantic word definitions as straws rather than accept a simple bit of evidence indicating that life by rivers might have influenced human evolution.

As usual, the single, most simple, most obvious way of getting an ape to move bipedally - i.e. when in shallow water - is actively dissected out as a possibility because it might mean that Hardy was on the right lines all along and a lot of "authorities" in paleoanthropology would look very silly.

Algis
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby Taxidea » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:45 am

Now do Gani and Gani make explicit reference to a sfgf? Or are you just making a wholly unwarranted assumption?


Savannahs are subject to seasonal rainfall. The whole paper describes riparian habitats in a broad savannah context.


That's not the issue. If there is a river it follows as night does the day that there will be a riparian habitat of some
description. The issue is ballooning this commonplace into a seasonally flooded gallery forest based upon nothing
but a complete misunderstanding of basic terminology.

You are clutching at pedantic word definitions as straws rather than accept a simple bit of evidence indicating that life by rivers might have influenced human evolution.


Pedantic? English philosopher G E Moore once quipped that if language is to serve as a vehicle of communication
the words have to mean something. Apparently, for you, he was wrong. Again you make a, to be polite, extravagant
claim and are wholly unable to back it up. Calling it pedantry to insist that the words mean something only gives
pedantry a good name.

As usual, the single, most simple, most obvious way of getting an ape to move bipedally - i.e. when in shallow water - is actively dissected out as a possibility because it might mean that Hardy was on the right lines all along and a lot of "authorities" in paleoanthropology would look very silly.


This proposed wading model has little to do with Hardy. Read his New Scientist piece. Throw out the tool making
and dolphin hunting and we have an animal on the Pacific coast of North America that fits the bill pretty closely.
They're called sea lions

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Re: Gani & Gani 2011 River-margin habitat of Ar. ramidus

Postby AlgisKuliukas » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:12 pm

Taxidea wrote:
Now do Gani and Gani make explicit reference to a sfgf? Or are you just making a wholly unwarranted assumption?


Savannahs are subject to seasonal rainfall. The whole paper describes riparian habitats in a broad savannah context.


That's not the issue. If there is a river it follows as night does the day that there will be a riparian habitat of some
description. The issue is ballooning this commonplace into a seasonally flooded gallery forest based upon nothing
but a complete misunderstanding of basic terminology.



I disagree. Here are some quotes from their paper that, I put it to you, are just a bit more than a "complete misunderstanding of basic terminology"...

"Hence, the palaeorivers that deposited those channelized sandstones likely co-existed with Ar. ramidus at Aramis, and our study interval has a time span of few thousand to most tens of thousands of years." Gani & Gani (2011:2)

"Similar clasts are also found in the adjacent lower channel body, suggesting that the floodplain was repeatedly flooded by the nearby palaeoriver." Gani & Gani (2011:2)

"However, it is also likely that the lower channel body may represent a crevasse channel of a main river. In any case, our sedimentological data strongly argue for the presence of sizable rivers at 4.4 Myr in the study area." Gani & Gani (2011:3)

At the very least you have to admit that this paper completely contradicts the first paleohabitat paper in Science (of the famous "Ardi papers") that appeared to argue for no significant water courses in the nearby habitat. An implication that aquaskeptics on TR that were gloating about a year or so ago.

Taxidea wrote:
You are clutching at pedantic word definitions as straws rather than accept a simple bit of evidence indicating that life by rivers might have influenced human evolution.


Pedantic? English philosopher G E Moore once quipped that if language is to serve as a vehicle of communication
the words have to mean something. Apparently, for you, he was wrong. Again you make a, to be polite, extravagant
claim and are wholly unable to back it up. Calling it pedantry to insist that the words mean something only gives
pedantry a good name.



We know what riparian habitats are. We know what savannahs are. Put the two together and you get seasonally flooded gallery forests.

Taxidea wrote:
As usual, the single, most simple, most obvious way of getting an ape to move bipedally - i.e. when in shallow water - is actively dissected out as a possibility because it might mean that Hardy was on the right lines all along and a lot of "authorities" in paleoanthropology would look very silly.


This proposed wading model has little to do with Hardy. Read his New Scientist piece. Throw out the tool making
and dolphin hunting and we have an animal on the Pacific coast of North America that fits the bill pretty closely.
They're called sea lions



I disagree with Hardy on the actual location for the origin of hominin bipedalism. Suggesting that wading might have played a role, I suggest, was being on the right lines. As it is the one scenario that can guarantee bipedalism in otherwise quadrupedal apes, don't you think it's about time the field considered it seriously?

I mean here we are 150 years after Darwin's "freeing the hands" idea and the authorities are still largely clueless as to what might have caused this most fundamental human trait.

Algis
Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan. (p118)
Kuliukas, A., Morgan, E. (2011). Aquatic scenarios in the thinking on human evolution: What are they and how do they compare?. In: Vaneechoutte, M., Verhaegen, M., Kuliukas, A. (2011). Was Man More Aquatic in the Past?
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